Capitol Alert

BLITZER: Let's talk to Jane Harman, the Congresswoman from California. She's here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Thanks very much for coming in.

REP. JANE HARMAN, (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Do you remember any such conversation with an Israeli or Israeli agent representing AIPAC, the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee?

HARMAN: I have known about this for a few days and I never had any idea that my government was wiretapping me at all. Three anonymous sources have told various media that this happened. And they're quoting snippets of allegedly taped conversations. So I don't know what the snippets mean. I don't know whether these intercepts were legal. And that's why I asked Eric Holder to put it all out there in public.

BLITZER: Because "The New York Times" and "Congressional Quarterly," they say there are actually transcripts of this recorded wiretap.

HARMAN: Well, let's see if there are -- or wiretaps. And let's see who else was wiretapped. I mean lots of members of Congress talk to advocacy organizations. My phone is ringing off the hook in my office from worried members who are asking whether I think it could have happened to them. I think this is an abuse of power, Wolf.

BLITZER: Because they say at the end of that alleged conversation, for which they have some sort of transcript, you were quoted as saying: "This conversation doesn't exist."

HARMAN: I have no idea what I might have said in conversations with somebody or somebodies. These are American citizens we're talking about-- conversations that took place in America.

I'm an American citizen..

BLITZER: Was this a conversation you had with an American citizen or an Israeli citizen?

HARMAN: I don't -- I cannot imagine I had any conversation like this with -- with anyone who was not an American citizen.

BLITZER: So is the NSA, the National Security Agency...

HARMAN: Well, let's find...

BLITZER: ...authorized to wiretap American citizens.

HARMAN: It's -- the -- the -- if -- if we're talking about the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, the original target has to be a foreigner outside the -- the United States who's suspected of being a terrorist.

And if that person talks to an American in America, then you can get an individualized FISA warrant. But this is complicated. It's not clear who did what. It's just -- the allegations are that it was about me. And I -- you know, I -- my comment is this is an abuse of power.

I'm not worried about me. I have a bully pulpit. I'm on your show talking about it.

BLITZER: But you did endorse -- you did support those warrantless wiretap -- those intercepts when you were, you know, just reviewing it, right?

HARMAN: I sup -- no. I support, if necessary, surveillance of people in order to prevent attacks against us. But they have to -- surveillance has to be done consistent with our laws and the Constitution. I didn't know -- I did not know that what the Bush administration was doing until it disclosed the program in 2005 did not follow the law, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

BLITZER: And this notion that you were seeking to convince Nancy Pelosi to allow you to become the chair of the House Intelligence Committee, you went to a major political donor of Nancy Pelosi to threaten her that she would lose the support -- you saw that allegation in "The New York Times."

HARMAN: I -- I -- I think this is just -- just strange. I didn't need -- I don't need to persuade members of the American-Israel Political Action Committee that I'm a friend of theirs.

Why would I do some kind of deal?

And anyway, let's have the transcripts out. Let's see what I said and to whom. And I did not make any effort -- this I remember clearly -- at all ever to influence our government at any level to reduce the sentences of alleged...

BLITZER: Then you don't remember...

HARMAN: ...employees of AIPAC.

BLITZER: ...ever ending a conversation with anyone by saying those words that were quoted in "The New York Times" today: "This conversation doesn't exist.

HARMAN: Wolf, this is four years ago. I have many conversations every day with advocacy groups. There's nothing wrong with doing this. I talk to AIPAC. I talk to many other groups. I -- I frequently go to the Middle East, as you do.

And so I -- I want to see a full transcript of what I said, if someone wiretapped me. And I want to know, by the way, if the wiretaps were legal. And I want to make sure that members of Congress are not routinely wiretapped without their knowledge.

BLITZER: Because our Jeanne Meserve -- you just saw the report. She says based on the information she's getting, it was a legal wiretap. But we're trying to figure out who the other person was that you allegedly had this conversation with...

HARMAN: Right.

BLITZER: ...whether it was a U.S. citizen, an Israeli citizen. And we don't know the answer to that.

HARMAN: And the sources for these stories, so far as I know, are three undisclosed people, former and present national security officials.

Who are these people and what agendas do they have?

And so...

BLITZER: Have you had conversations with officials at the Justice Department, the NSA, the CIA, the White House...

HARMAN: About this?

BLITZER: ...about this?

HARMAN: Never. Never. This story, this old, stale story has been leaked twice. In 2006, right before the election -- and it was discredited. And again, this weekend. And...

BLITZER: So what does Jane Harman do now to try to clear her name?

Because it was the banner of -- the lead story in "The New York Times" today.

HARMAN: Well, I, frankly, think my name is clear. My conscience is certainly clear. And I think the question is about, does our government-- or did our government abuse the rights of American citizens, including members of Congress, with legal or illegal wiretappings about things that were not appropriate and then selective leaking of the product of those leaks for political purposes?

BLITZER: And if there are these transcripts of this alleged conversation you had, you want the government to release those transcripts?

HARMAN: I want the government to release those transcripts without redaction, without crossing out names. And then I will make them available to the public. And you and I can read together what I may have said that was wiretapped four years ago and make sense of it or not.

I mean these were informal conversations with friends of mine. There is nothing wrong with talking to advocacy groups and constituency groups. And I do it every single day. And I'm proud to have a lot of friends, as you just heard Speaker Pelosi say, in Washington and I -- and around the world.

And this is a strange event. It's a -- it's a kind of out of body experience. But I am -- I am offended by it. I think it's an abuse of power. And I want to make sure it's not happening to other people.

BLITZER: If they hand over the transcripts to you and you want to release them, we'll be happy to read them together with you.

HARMAN: I'll welcome that. I love being on this show again.

HARMAN: Thanks very much, Congresswoman.

HARMAN: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Congresswoman Jane Harman of California.