On the issues: Alana Mathews, candidate for Sacramento district attorney, talks guns, crime

The Sacramento Bee Editorial Board talked one-on-one with former prosecutor and law professor Alana Mathews, who is running to be Sacramento’s next District Attorney. It has been edited for length and clarity.

The Sacramento Bee: Can you give us a general introduction?

Mathews: I’ve lived in this county for about 25 years. I’m a mom of three kids and a proud Army wife. I’m ready to bring change to Sacramento County.

The Sacramento Bee: Could you give us a sense of your background and what made you want to run for DA?

Mathews: I’m originally from Gary, Indiana, which is one of the murder capitols of this country for a long time. I was raised in a union household where my dad was a pipefitter, my mom cleaned hospital rooms and I watched them always stand up for better wages, better working conditions and better opportunities. Part of the reason for that is when I was young I was at my pastor’s house with our youth group — Gary was so bad I really couldn’t go to basketball games or dances, but my parents did let me hang out with my youth group to be safe. One summer night, we were the victims of a random drive-by shooting. That’s how bad Gary was. There was a drive-by at the pastor’s house. My parents said, ‘Hey listen, for a better life we’re not moving — we can’t move anywhere. But get good grades and go to college and you’ll get a better life.’ So I listened. I was class president, an honors student, a Girl Scout and in 1990 I had the opportunity to go to a college preparatory school on the campus of Ball State University. It was great. I left home at 16. I had a bright new future ahead of me. I decided to go for a walk one day and take it in and one of the things I remember was how quiet it was. Not the noisy hustle and bustle of an urban city. While I was walking a truck came up behind me. The guys inside stopped next to me, called me the N-word and the B-word and told me to go back to Africa. I was shocked, but only for a moment because then they started to get out of the truck and accost me so I was running. I don’t remember how far they chased me, I don’t even remember how I got back to campus but the next thing I remember is going through the dorm doors, out of breath, in tears and telling the administrators what happened to me and their response was, ‘You shouldn’t have been walking alone.’ I share those two stories because they taught me two lessons: One, I, as a Black woman, may not be safe no matter where I live. Two, the criminal justice system may not be available to me because the police were never called and they didn’t even file an incident report. I’m running for DA because I feel very strongly that everybody ought to be safe no matter where you live or raise your family and the criminal justice system ought to be available to everybody and currently it is not.

The Sacramento Bee: You worked at the DA’s office before. What capacity did you work in?

Mathews: I went to college and then I became a stay-at-home mom for seven years. I married a minister and I was doing ministry community service work helping prostitutes and at every turn we needed either a restraining order — and, at that time, women who were prostitutes couldn’t really go to domestic violence shelters — so we needed housing. I thought, ‘If I just go to law school that will be a good thing that’ll help me figure this out.’ I went to law school and by happenstance, I took a trial advocacy class. Jan Scully, the one and only time she ever sat in as presiding judge, saw me and offered me a job. That’s how I found my way to the DA’s office, because I didn’t have a clue — no blueprint, I didn’t know any lawyers. I started off as an intern. I interned for two years. And then they offered me a job and I worked my way up from misdemeanor jury trials to juvenile hall, domestic violence, was on the felony team, routinely got the most complicated cases, including home invasion, robbery, attempted murder. I also was put on a special team for crimes that happen in prison. Then I did some collaborative courts: I did our superior court review where you are negotiating before a case goes to preliminary hearing and then to trial. And then in 2012, I was recruited to go to the California Energy Commission. So I stopped protecting victims and started protecting vulnerable communities. I started their enforcement unit. Full transparency: I was so bored. I’m used to high-paced crime cases and a state agency just moves very, very slow. An appointment came up, I was president of the Bar Association and they sent me a notice, and a mentor said, ‘Don’t you work there?’ And I said, ‘Yeah, but I’ve only been here three months, I can’t apply.’ And they said, ‘You should just try it.’ So I did and it was about a four- or five-month process — very long — and I decided I needed to redefine the position in order to feel qualified for it but I did and the governor bought it and I was appointed public attorney. That gave me experience to be an executive leader and drive organizational change. I did some great work there and got the attention of the speaker. After I served two terms under Gov. Brown and a little bit under Newsom, the speaker appointed me chief consultant. My experience includes being in a courtroom, being in a commission, being in the Capitol and navigating that. While I was a DA, I realized — because of how I grew up in Gary — that what we do in a community is just as important as what we do in a courtroom. I’ve mentored women on parole. In 2004, I was already thinking ahead. There’s a better role than prosecuting cases. I also mentored at-risk youth in the Florin Law and the World Academy. I did those things because I believe transforming lives is just as important as protecting them. In addition to being in the community, I’ve also been in the classroom. I’m an adjunct professor. That’s relevant to share because I didn’t just teach courses, I taught a first-year course to help law students understand their identity. Don’t be like me and just go to law school because you think you want to be an attorney and maybe that will help you. What type of attorney? What good can you do in whatever role? And then I was responsive — I was asked to teach implicit bias and the law so that no matter what practice you’re going into, you’re addressing disparities that are systemic. When the 2020 protests happened — I’m a very solutions-oriented person — it wasn’t my place to be out on the streets, but I knew I had a role. So I developed a course called Racial Equity and Justice where I decided to bring the law school to the community and take those front-line protests to policy, to practice and to some form, ultimately, to power. We worked on things like alternatives to 911 with Public Health Advocates. We worked on those who are not homeless but at risk of being homeless with the Sacramento Housing Alliance. We worked on the justice to jobs coalition; people caught in the system with fines they can’t afford. Bringing in law students to say, ‘Okay, go to planning commission meetings. I know they’re boring. You watch them on Access Sacramento. But this is how you’re part of the solution.’ It’s easy to point the finger and say, ‘That’s wrong,’ or ‘What you’re doing isn’t right,’ but be a part, be invested. We really had light bulb moments not only with the organizations and community members we worked with but also for many of my students, one of which is Duke Cooney and he’s running for supervisor of Sacramento County. So even early on, transforming lives with the people I’ve mentored has been something I’ve been able to do and I want to bring that to the criminal justice system because I think we can’t just react to crime, we have to have prevention and intervention strategies so we can help people make the decision not to engage in criminal conduct in the first place.

The Sacramento Bee: One of the things you were describing in your own background and experiences is very much at the heart of what a lot of people are looking at in this race, which is the labels that district attorneys are under these days — progressive or moderate or conservative or non-partisan. I’m curious what you make of how the role of the DA is branded in today’s environment and how this is influencing a lot of the discourse around criminal justice and law enforcement.

Mathews: I’m working hard to disrupt that discourse, because if you are seen as a person who wants to bring change or reform, it seems like it’s mutually exclusive with being tough on crime. I think we have to be tough on serious and violent crime. But we also can be open to reform for low-level offenders. Changing and disrupting that narrative is doing that. The one label — if I have to have one — is effective. And I don’t think we have had effectiveness in the DA’s office. That’s why I’m running. I worked for the Prosecutor’s Alliance, and George Gascón and Chesa Boudin are two of the founders. But so is Tori Verber Salazar and Diana Becton, so the political patriarchy is real. Contra Costa County was one of the larger counties that saw a decrease in crime in 2020. And they just don’t get enough credit for it. Tori Verber Salazar is a Republican, she’s conservative, so there’s not a label, —even though that’s the discourse. I have been engaged in educating the public, which I think is a great role for the DA. I think the DA ought to seek justice in criminal cases. But I think the DA also has a role to prevent crime with public education, and also to be a trusted leader. So it makes a difference if they see a district attorney show up; not when something bad has happened, but when there’s a problem and we want to fix it. We want to be proactive. One of the programs that I want to bring to Sacramento County is having a crime strategy unit. I want to change the community prosecutions unit from just dealing with these quality of life nuisances, really being strategic and getting out and working. You can actually grid the work that was done in New York. A lot of crime we normalize to neighborhoods, but you can probably find two or three blocks where most of it happens. Let’s look at the crime trends, the victims trends and have a multi-disciplinary team so that we have health, social scientists, social workers, law enforcement, psychologists and mental health professionals engaged to bring solutions that we need. That’s the label that I’m advocating towards, but I understand that. I think that Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, I’ve taken heart from watching her. It’s the same playbook that was used against Thurgood Marshall when he was up, and it’s what I am facing. I counter that narrative with my background. The fact that I took on cases, I’ve held people responsible. I’m a survivor of crime. And in fact, I’m in the demographic of a group of people who are most likely to be victims of crime. In addition to gun violence and racial violence, I’m a survivor of domestic violence. I learned that when I was little; but when I was 40 and divorced and dating another attorney, I decided, ‘Okay, this is not someone I want to date.’ I may not look like the typical domestic violence victim. I thought I was going to go on, but this person sent me threatening messages, harassing messages — ‘You’re not going to say no to me.’ It ultimately ended with that person breaking into my garage and attacking me. You know what? That case was not prosecuted in Sacramento County. So I learned again: I may not be safe no matter where I live, and the criminal justice system may not be available to me. When I can share that and understand how I’ve had to go outside of the criminal justice system to seek healing for myself and get a sense of justice, then people realize that I’m not being soft on crime because I really am. I’m not just reading this statistic, I really have lived experience, where I am in the highest demographic statistics of being a victim of crime.

The Sacramento Bee: This week, for better or for worse, is a good moment for this conversation because of the shooting on K Street. There are systemic realities and prevention that is part of the discussion but also people looking for action — swift and heavy-handed. I’m curious how you would navigate an environment like this or a moment like this if you were district attorney, knowing that there is so much more at play here. But at the same time, people do want to see something public and quickly in response. How would you navigate a moment like this?

Mathews: The swift response should be swift to the victims. I went down there, I went downtown. I struggled with that a little bit because I didn’t want it to be political, like, ‘Oh, she’s trying to do this for political purposes.’ I didn’t say who I was. I was on my way to church and I felt the spirit just led me down there. I just kind of stayed back and watched. I saw some people that I knew. And one thing I’ll say about street code: You just don’t walk into other people’s space. I don’t know the family. I didn’t know anybody who was involved. It was important for me not to invade that space. Because I knew some people because of the work I’ve been doing in the community, they kind of invited me over. I said, ‘Hey, are you okay? Do you need anything?’ People had been out there since 2 in the morning, so they hadn’t eaten. I was trying to find out ways I could be supportive. People weren’t getting information. They want to know if the bodies have been picked up. I just tried to be helpful, to get information and at least explain to them why they can’t move it right away, because there’s a four-block crime scene. I think the response should be swift to the victims. To say, ‘We see you as victims.’ We’re not going to put labels on you, we’re not gonna normalize it and say, ‘Oh, well that’s just the culture.’ Which I got a sense of. Just acknowledge people are in pain. They have lost loved ones, they are hurting. And be swift to show care and concern. But you want to be deliberate. You want to be thoughtful, you want to be thorough in your investigation. Be responsive and let them know that. When we don’t have information, when there’s gaps, we fill it in with something negative. And a community of distrust is going to think, ‘Oh, you don’t care about us. This isn’t making any sense. This is discrimination.’ They’re going to fill it in with negativity. So you use that as an opportunity to connect, show concern and then break up whatever negative gaps that could be in there. And then support law enforcement, the integrity of that scene to say, ‘Okay, we want to make sure we get anything.’ Give a plea out to get information. If you know anything, if you’ve seen anything. One of the challenges was that some people are just taught not to talk to police officers. But this is a bad thing that happened. And those who are involved and responsible for taking their lives — shooting other people — have to be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. That’s where you draw the line. You’re pulling out guns and you’re killing people, innocent people. That deserves, I think, aggressive prosecution. Being able to make sure you get the right person because anytime something like this happens, information is going to be flying around the streets. People were posting videos that say a lot of different things. My immediate attention — because I’m not in the law enforcement space — was to be supportive, to show care and concern, but also to make sure there’s no further harm. There’s no retaliation, especially when people don’t know who was involved, what was going on. So I think it’s important for the DA to have a role in that. You have to be thinking two steps ahead. The police are going to do the investigation. What can you do to be present in the community to make sure we’re not going to have a retaliation. And when you have relationships, then you activate those credible messengers. Whether it’s Advanced Peace or United and Guided or Brother 2 Brother. Now, it’s not the role of the DA, because of the distrust in the community, to activate that, but you have a partnership. If I were DA, I would have a partnership to say, ‘Hey, can you make sure that we’re not going to have retaliation?’ Contact the families. Is there a family that has been known to have ties with members who would want to seek retaliation? Making sure that someone is saying, ‘Hey, we’re going to let the system handle this.’ We don’t want more loss of life. Also, I think it’s the role for the DA to start offering support. People are traumatized, but they’re not getting information. Victim services, let’s start helping victims. That’s one of the things that some family members were concerned with. What do we do with the burial costs? How do we navigate that? Just putting a system in place. And this is new for me, but I just learned that as I shared that information, some people impacted don’t feel like they can go to the DA’s office. I had been in contact with the mayor’s office and they said, ‘This is the person that people should contact.’ Well, it’s the victim services person in the DA’s office. But that could be dangerous. To go to the DA’s office to get help filling out information. You have to be aware of all of those dynamics and still be able to be supportive and still be able to have accountability. That’s just a matter of accommodating — that doesn’t mean that if someone has information they’re not going to share it. It just means we understand what’s going on, and everything that is at play.

The Sacramento Bee: I know a focus of your campaign is on ending gun violence. I’m curious what that looks like and how that happens.

Mathews: We need a stronger presence and we need a DA who is going to advocate for getting guns out of the hands of people who should not have them because it’s going to result in tragedies like this — particularly with domestic violence victims. We have a good example in San Diego of, when domestic violence restraining orders are given out, law enforcement, when they’re present, they’re more likely to get a gun because the honor system is not going to work. Educating on Red Flag Laws — most people don’t even know what a Red Flag Law is. This is a time where you can empower a community member because older family members understand this should not happen. So they can say, ‘Alright, maybe we have to use this process, because I don’t want you engaging in some form of retaliation or getting caught up in that.’ Educating on red flag laws is a good way to keep individuals safe. Part of it is also gun violence prevention programs — violence prevention or violence intervention. The returns of that are not given enough credit. That’s what it would look like in this moment — activating that, taking the time to get guns away from people who shouldn’t have them. I think it came out that one of the guys involved in the shooting had been involved in domestic violence. And that is really high on the legality protocol. So it’s an opportunity, it’s low-hanging fruit. And then we have illegal guns. We need to be more intentional and aggressive, not only going after those who have the guns, but those who facilitate putting those guns in their hands. I just recently learned there’s only one city in Sacramento County that allows gun sales out of the home. It is controversial because I know that a lot of law and order Republican folks love their Second Amendment rights. I’m married to an Army veteran. He certainly loves his Second Amendment rights. But if we don’t get control of how these guns get on the street, we’re going to get in a cycle; I think we need to be in solutions. That’s an area where we need change. All of those need to be activated in a moment like this. And to those who would normally push back, this is what happens when we’re not focusing on illegal guns. This is what happens when we are not focusing on getting guns out of the hands of felons. This is what happens when we are not supporting and investing in violence prevention.

The Sacramento Bee: At a moment like this, where there’s not only a couple of high-profile crimes like we’ve had in the Sacramento area but also a general increase in murders and other crime, there’s often an appetite in politics and in the public for a return to traditional law enforcement tactics and longer sentences — more charges and tougher prosecution and policing. How do you respond to that sort of impulse in the public and in law enforcement?

Mathews: I point out the contradiction. If this happened in LA or San Francisco, they would blame the DA for those policies or agendas that they have. But we don’t have that in Sacramento. We’ve had tough and long sentences being imposed. And this is where we are. In fact, data has come out from the Sacramento Police Department that shows that our homicide, robbery, rape rates have gone up higher than both of those jurisdictions. So we have to look at data. For me, I ask people, ‘Do you want a leader who’s going to point and blame? Or do you want a leader who’s gonna step up and take responsibility?’ I don’t want the blame game. I want to say, ‘I’m here in Sacramento, I’m focusing on Sacramento and this is what we need to do.’ And we need leaders who are going to stand up and be accountable to say, ‘This is the plan and this is how we’re going to reduce it.’ Why have our homicide rates gone up? We have to look at that. What plan has been in place? What has the Sacramento County DA’s Office done to address homelessness at the intersectionality with crime? What have they done? People experiencing homelessness are more likely to become victims than perpetrators. How have we been keeping that community safe? Because more than likely, perpetrators have violated in the shadows before they have violated anywhere else. I ask those questions. Do you have an appetite for tough on crime or for effectiveness? Because what I’m offering is effectiveness, and what we have now is not working. You’re not feeling more safe when you have to take your trash can out to the curb. You’re not feeling more safe walking around downtown. Do you want to keep doing the same thing over and over again? Or do you want to try something that has data behind it? I use data. And I use that data, and I use Sacramento data, to say, ‘This is where we are, and this is what’s happening.’ And even though it’s a trend across the country, it really boils down to effectiveness and ineffectiveness.

The Sacramento Bee: California has some of the highest bail in the nation. Could you talk about your plans for bail reform?

Mathews: I do support having bail. I think that our bail system needs to be based on the safety risks that a person poses and not how much money they have in their bank account. Because obviously, that’s fundamentally unfair — a person who poses a high risk but is well off can get out? That’s a danger in society. And a person who has little to no means has to sit in jail. Last March, the California Supreme Court ruled that it was unconstitutional to have someone just sitting in jail because they can’t afford to bail out. We have to come up with an assessment; we tried that at the ballot. A lot of public defenders, who you’d think would be more sympathetic, did not support that because they felt that assessment tool was going to be just as biased as the current system. I learned from that. I think a better approach — and the way I would approach it — is investing in our pre-trial assessment. Right now, we have two programs: Probation has a program and so does the public defenders. I think that’s very important. So when we look at things that happened in Land Park, when the alleged suspect had gotten out, they didn’t have a pre-trial assessment, the sheriff just released them. I advocate for having a bail system that’s based on risk assessment, but a risk assessment that’s done by the public defender’s pre-trial assessment program, because I think that has been the most effective assessment that we have seen to date. Probation has had one, and I think I would support theirs as well. I sat down with the Chief Probation Officer and they agreed. I know that those who define themselves as abolitionists are like, ‘We want to support the public defenders, because the probation officers have guns and badges.’ But there are people who do bad things. So I’m not offended by the fact that probation has it. But what I do appreciate is that if someone is going to be released, and they have substance abuse or mental illness, if there’s a way to put conditions in place that will assure they will come back to court and they pose a low risk and there’s a detailed review of that, I think that’s great. I support that. But it doesn’t matter who’s doing that. And then we have a record, because unfortunately, with the Tibbitts murder, there was no record, there was just a lot of deflection. Saying, ‘Oh, it was Elk Grove,’ ‘No, it was Sac PD.’ ‘Oh no, it was the courts.’ And really, we still don’t have accountability. So how can we have any assurance that it’s going to be fixed? I hear all the time when I talk to law enforcement, ‘Well, we just cite them out because they’re going to be released.’ Why are they going to be released? So then I go to the sheriff’s deputies, ‘Why are they being released?’ Do you all only have 200 beds? Where’s the transparency? Is it because there’s no room? Is it because of COVID? How many people have COVID? We don’t have answers, and you need a DA, when we’re talking about bail, who advocates and demands that level of transparency — to hold everybody accountable, not just members of the community, elected officials, officers, everybody. That’s something we haven’t seen is a DA holding the sheriff accountable. When we’re talking about bail and who is being released, that begs the question, because we have to know that.

The Sacramento Bee: Alana, you’ve had a very accomplished career, but you left the DA’s office a decade ago. And you’re running against the handpicked successor to the current DA. He wasn’t her first choice, but she eventually landed on him. And I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say you’re also running against law enforcement. Law enforcement are throwing their weight and their money behind your opponent. In law enforcement, we’re dealing with a paramilitary culture. We’ve certainly had our own issues with the Sac Sheriff’s Department on this Editorial Board and Sacramento Police Department. There’s a large enough sample size of DAs who came from the outside and really found themselves fighting people within their own office. How would you deal with that? You’re running against the elite prosecutor in Sacramento County. How would you work with people who were against you?

Mathews: Wear steel-toed boots, thumbtacks won’t matter. Just a little levity. One of the things I will say is the culture of the DA’s office is one that is kind of clique-ish, good-ol’-boy-ish. So if you aren’t in the “in crowd,” it doesn’t make for good morale. I have a lot of support in the DA’s office. Although I would agree that there are some against me, but I think it’s because that culture would be broken up, and it needs to be broken up. And I am driven by the need for change. It is a daunting task. But I’ve literally come to the moment: If not me, who? If not now, when? Because people in this county have been crying out for change. Whether it’s in editorials, whether it’s in protests. Somebody has to step up to the plate, and what I’m finding out is that in the DA’s office, they’re crying out for change too. The staff are not happy. The attorneys get to work from home, but they don’t, they feel undervalued. So they are looking for someone who comes in and says, ‘You’re filling out the subpoenas or you’re doing the clerical work — you’re valued. And I’m going to support you in the way that I can. And so are the DAs.’ Because if they’re not the hardcore trial dogs, they don’t promote up, they don’t get to get into leadership positions. But maybe they want to figure out a way where we can sit in the collaborative courts and find justice. And it’s meaningful for them, when they see someone come back to court, and they’re like, ‘I’m clean, and I’ve been clean for three months, I’ve been clean for six months.’ They enjoy that kind of work, but that’s not valued. Because you’re not pulling in the numbers, you’re not making the big headlines. That culture is stressful. When you decide to become a DA, nine times out of 10 it’s because you want to help the victim, you want to help them seek justice. And then it just becomes about this machine because that’s how you get promoted. You have to get so many trials, you have to get so many guilty verdicts in those trials, and then you promote up. And so those titles really reflect rewards for doing exactly what the culture depends on. People want that shift to focus on justice. They don’t want to be in court and say, ‘I can’t negotiate this case. I think it’s fair, but I need to call my supervisor.’ You don’t have autonomy. Individuals within the office are reaching out to me, so I do know that I would have support. People are looking for a change in that system. I’m guided more by what I feel needs to be done and not by the challenges I think I will face in getting it done. But I also have support from law enforcement. Not the association’s, but those who are on the ground have similar frustrations, because they can work up a case and they bring it to the office and the charges don’t get filed. So this is something that rank-and-file officers have shared with me. I think that I have to create an environment — many of them are looking for an off-ramp, they see things that they know are not right, but because of that culture they don’t have an off-ramp. Developing an Independent Investigations Bureau will allow officers the opportunity to see what happened in the Derek Chauvin trial, where they can come forward and say, ‘Yeah, we actually want to do the right thing as well.’ And I believe that there are certainly more good people. Like my husband who served in the military, you meet the mission. They’re not trying to be political, they just want to go out and keep the streets safe. And I think having a DA who’s focused on that, who’s supporting that, is going to garner a lot more support than those who are loud and trying to protect this paramilitary culture.

The Sacramento Bee: Having been on the inside of the office and having been a manager in other capacities yourself, is there anything about the office — organizationally or managerially — that you think needs to change to realize that sort of difference in the culture?

Mathews: Yes, changing it from a culture of conviction to one of justice, and allowing DAs the discretion to say, ‘This is what is right in this situation.’ You pretty much are handed a case and you’re told what you have to seek, especially when you’re on the trial team. An offer has already been made, and as the case progresses, if you don’t resolve it early, the offer is just going to go up. And that conflicts with what is just. Because the culture has been one of high sentences, you don’t resolve a lot of cases, which means you have a heavy caseload. That creates stress. You want DAs to be thoughtful and deliberate. When I was at DA, I didn’t want to be one-dimensional. I didn’t want to just follow, so I fought and would say, ‘I think this is a bad case. I think I need to dismiss it.’ It may have painted me in a certain way. But I wanted to make sure I could sleep at night. I have a strong ethical core. And that goes back to my union parents. You do what you feel is right. And so I did that. I had a case one time when I was supervising an intern, and this was out at traffic court, and he came back very excited and was like, ‘I just won the case, my victim didn’t show up.’ I’m like, ‘Well, how did you win the case if the victim didn’t show up? That’s hearsay.’ I said, ‘No, you can’t do that.’ So I had to go into the finds room, find the case, I found the defendant — by the way, he didn’t even speak English, so to me that made it even worse — go back to the courtroom, ask the judge, ‘Would you recall this case? We need to dismiss this case.’ It’s moments like that where you absolutely have to start instilling that it’s not the conviction or the win. And that line is very thin. It’s about what’s right for the community. You’re being evaluated on how many convictions and how many guilty verdicts, so I would also change the way we evaluate DAs. I would like for DAs to be more involved in the community. Some people don’t live in Sacramento County, they’ve never visited the areas, it’s just a police report that they see. And just like for police officers, they should patrol the areas. I would like to set up a program, whether it’s a Law Enforcement Assisted Diversion program where you can do community service, but to get out in the community and really understand the dynamics. Every case I prosecuted, every case that went to trial, I visited the crime scene because I wanted to understand the dynamics of how they experienced safety in that area. Evaluating them differently, giving an incentive for community service and work so that the only time they’re going to a community is not when we have a case. We actually see that they’re good people, they’re multi-dimensional. I also think that we have to appreciate that everybody doesn’t want to be a trial dog. They call it “the mommy track” — you’re taken out of a trial rotation. But that’s very important work when you’re in the collaborative courts, because you actually have the opportunity to impact. So you don’t promote to a five where you get more money. I would change the evaluation, so that we have a more holistic approach. And I would also evaluate our training that we give whether it’s an implicit bias, it’s trauma-informed. We don’t have trauma informed communication. When you go to court — we do think about TV — you want to get that victim on the stand and have that moment. And that’s not always good for people’s mental health. You don’t want to take them to the breaking point just to get a big dramatic effect. But you can explain to your jury, ‘Sometimes people have a flat affect, but that’s because that’s how they deal with trauma. That’s how they deal with crises. That’s how they’re able to recall the details.’ But also, when you are communicating with victims, if you say, ‘I need you to come to court.’ Take the time to say, ‘What’s the best time for me to call you to discuss this information?’ I don’t call you at noon just because it’s my lunch hour. I would change how we have everyday communications, trauma-informed communications with DA. I have a whole list because I’m the training coordinator for the Prosecutor’s Alliance. So I train on reform. Also, I would set up a program where DAs could visit people or have interactions with people who have successfully reformed their life. Because if you just see people who are doing bad things, and then they come back and they do bad things and you’re looking at their rap sheet, you don’t get to see the people who don’t come back into the system. And that happens on all different levels. Understanding what helped them transition and transform their life, so then it educates the agency on conditions or programs that are working. I think there’s a lot that we can do to move this office forward, and move DAs forward to thinking more about justice than just convictions.

The Sacramento Bee: Chesa Boudin is facing a recall in San Francisco, and the perception is that he is soft on crime. When the SF Chronicle analyzed his charging rates and conviction rates, they were a little higher than George Gascón, who was his predecessor. His charging rates on homicide and drug charges were fairly consistent, but that on petty theft and other crimes, they tried to get more people into diversion programs. There certainly is an appetite to have lower-level offenders trying to get help rather than be incarcerated. Where do you fall on that? Do you feel the recall against Boudin is justified? And are you concerned that perhaps your opponents will try to paint you with the same brush?

Mathews: I can’t answer that first question because I haven’t really focused at all on San Francisco, I have really focused on Sacramento (City) and what Sacramento County needs. What I will say in Sacramento County with regard to low-level offenders and diversion programs, I think that it’s great. We already have diversion programs, but they’re not effective. This is where my law professor role comes in because we’re looking at data. You have to have a program that should be set up for anybody who’s referred to have success. I’ll give you an example. If you’re in a drug diversion program and you’re trying to get a job so that you can maintain your housing but you have to show up at three o’clock to take a test to make sure that you’re clean, well now you have to ask your boss if you can have time off of work. Do you have transportation issues? And then you didn’t show up because you couldn’t get the time off for work. So now you’re out of the program. A lot of instances like this happen. Diversion programs seem to be a slow plea in a lot of instances, that’s what the defense bar tells me. Yeah, we have a lot of collaborative courts, but they’re not set up for success. We’re still in this compliance mode: Do this at this time in this way. You’ve got to have a little bit of flexibility. We have to have diversion programs that are flexible. That doesn’t mean we have to bend over backwards and cater, there has to be accountability, there has to be structure. But we have to be responsive. So maybe there ought to be after hours, if people are working nights. We have to have some flexibility of what the requirements are with a goal that someone is going to successfully complete the program. I think there is a role for low-levels first time offenders, because we can’t incarcerate our way out of safety. We’re going to have to have diversion courts which are part of the intervention strategy. With mental health, the same thing — we should make sure that the programs we have are effective and have measurable results. So that your program is showing a certain percentage of zero recidivism on successful completion. Because I think we’re investing in these programs but we’re just going through the motions and there’s no accountability. So we say we have all these diversion courts but where is the data that says we reduced petty thefts this way. I feel like we need structure around low-level thefts. Because the police don’t even show up. Even if it’s vandalism. Is anybody hurt? Is anybody bleeding? And they’re frustrated because no one is showing up. If you’re stealing something under $950, it’s not a felony, but it’s still a misdemeanor. It’s still a crime, so we still have to hold people accountable for crime, for criminal conduct. I think we have to have a structure that’s in place. We have to have diversion programs that are actually achieving the results, and I know that there are some that are out there. And if they’re not, we need to replace them. So we shouldn’t just have them just for the sake of having them, we should have them because they’re actually achieving the results that we want, which is to keep somebody from going back and stealing more things.

The Sacramento Bee: There’s a couple of initiatives in Yolo County under Jeff Reisig, which our board is quite intrigued by. The commons portal allows folks to track crime over time and see if changes in prosecuting are leading to different types of incarceration and outcomes. Another is also removing race and names from the charging system. I’m curious if either of those are things that you would pursue?

Mathews: Yes, I’ve already talked to Stanford and they have developed a technology. And I was actually working with them to develop training to teach other offices how they could do that — taking that out. And I like having the data dashboard, because not only is that transparency for accountability in the office, but also a way that you can see if you’re being effective with who you’re charging, how you’re charging, what are the statistics. But it’s the law. We passed the California Racial Justice Act, last year that came into effect. And so you have to start having that data if you’re going to have a motion. So I believe in being proactive. I wouldn’t want to wait until the defense bar accuses us of being biased and then trying to search for the data, we ought to have it publicly available. And there’s a benefit in bringing the social sciences into the criminal justice process, because they do the reports. We need a statistician. Are there trends and biases that we are not seeing? I think that part of the role of moving the office forward is to address the racial disparities. We know they exist, a report came out last year from SPD that says they’re pulling Black and brown people over at higher rates. It would logically follow that they’re referring cases that reflect that same disparity. So I don’t know of any safeguards that are in place at the DAs office right now to safeguard against perpetuating that disparity that exists at the law enforcement level. So having that data dashboard is one way we can do that, making sure we have staff that can analyze that data, and then making it publicly available, so that if McGeorge or UC Davis or Sac State wanted to use that data, we would welcome that and say, ‘Present it to us.’ So we can make the corrections ourselves. We want to open up our system to be more safe, more fair and more just. Another program that I would want to work with is called For the People. There was another law from 2018: Prosecutor Initiated Resentencing. So even though we pass laws that have changed, if someone is appropriate, the prosecutor can initiate that — rather than waiting for a defender or a judge, the prosecutor has an ability to do that. Unfortunately, when they initially passed the bill, there was $2 million that was available to counties. The Sacramento DAs office didn’t have a relationship with the legislature to take advantage of that. I would also like to engage in a program like that. So hopefully with the next round of funding, we can do that. I’m going up against a very senior prosecutor, but that’s a very narrow experience. And what we need is not just prosecutorial experience, because the DA actually doesn’t try cases. You’re leading policy. So having that experience in the community, in the Capitol, driving executive change is what my opponent doesn’t have. But I have that. We have to have a relationship. We can talk about expanding mental health courts all you want, but that’s going to cost money. How are you going to get that money? You don’t have a relationship with the legislature. And just because you’ve testified on a bill, or you’ve reviewed legislation, it doesn’t equate to knowing the process of drafting county member votes, whipping votes or knowing the process of the budget. Sometimes you can pass policy or pass pilot programs through the budget. Having a relationship with the governor’s office to say, ‘This is something we want to do. Sacramento County is available.’ Having that type of expertise, that type of experience and those types of relationships is really what we need to move Sacramento County DAs office forward and to really reflect the values that the voters have voted for when we think about reforms. So having a leader that reflects that and can actually work and accomplish and get results in that vein, I think it’s something that’s more important. That’s another thing that I share when I’m talking to individuals, and they’re looking at that record of a career prosecutor. We need more than that to move this county forward. And that’s all we had and that’s why we see statistics right now that our homicide, robberies and rapes have gone up 30%, 31% and 16% respectively.

The Sacramento Bee: What would be the biggest differences between you and Anne Marie Schubert as the DA?

Mathews: Most granularly, it’s accountability for officers who commit misconduct. We’ve had a serious lack of accountability, and that has eroded trust from the public in the system. I have been very vocal about the Joseph Mann case. I think when the police department took action, the way that they did, it was an opportunity for the DAs office to do the right thing and they didn’t. So I called for the attorney general to review that case. That’s going to be the number one difference is that I’m going to be a DA who’s going to hold everyone accountable. I haven’t taken money from police officers, not because I’m anti-police — I worked with them very well. But I think you have to do that to establish prosecutorial independence. For cases like that, when people see a videotape with their own eyes, and then the DA says, ‘It’s justifiable.’ The first thing they say is, ‘Oh, that’s why, because she’s getting financial contributions.’ So I’ve taken that out of the equation, because I believe as DA I will have to make decisions to say that the use of force was justified. But at least people can have trust and faith and confidence that it’s based on the merits, and not based on any financial kickback. So that’s the first difference that we’re going to see. The second is that I’m going to be present in the community. I don’t want to wait until a tragedy happens in order for people to know who the DA is. There are still a number of people who don’t know who the DA is and don’t know what the DA does. And we have a community prosecution unit, so we should be in the community, we should be proactive. That can be established in advisory boards, but it also can be established in a town hall. We can have a state of crime address and talk to communities and say, ‘Okay, what are your concerns? How can we solve that?’ And the same way I worked with those frontline organizations when I got them invested to be a part of the solution and not just pointing out the problem, we can do that on a broader scale and community. Do you know how effective it is to have grandmas and aunties out there watching and saying, ‘No, no, no, we see what’s happening.’ I actually did my thesis on community courts. After I got a JD, I went back and got a Master of Law. I think community courts are very effective. Not only do we want to have more engagement in the community, but we should have more inclusion. In Yolo County they call them neighborhood courts, I call them community courts. We can also have youth courts where we have a model where the youth are actually the advocates, they play the role of the prosecutor and the defense. It’s like a pre-diversion program. Maybe they’ll come back and serve as a juror another time. But that’s a model that’s been in other jurisdictions in California, but it’s a win-win-win because students who may have gotten in trouble in school, maybe they were stealing something, now they see themselves in the role of an attorney, and it just broadens their horizons. And it’s the same type of results that I’ve seen with the Florin Law Academy. Having that lightbulb go off. So definitely being more present in the community, holding officers accountable and being responsive. I think what we do in Sacramento County is try cases: We know how to go into a courtroom and get a conviction. We’re not as successful with being in the community, and also being in the Capitol. I think that’s another difference. I would have a relationship. So when we’re looking at the changes that we need to make, I can leverage those relationships — being supported by both of the public safety chairs in the Senate and the Assembly to get resources to our county so that we can look at alternatives that can successfully make our community safer.

This story was originally published May 27, 2022 at 5:00 AM.