On the issues: Alana Mathews and Thien Ho, candidates for Sacramento district attorney

The following interview was conducted by members of The Sacramento Bee Editorial Board and the two leading candidates for Sacramento District Attorney, former prosecutor and law professor Alana Mathews and deputy district attorney and prosecutor Thien Ho. It has been edited for length and clarity.

The Sacramento Bee: Introduce yourself and tell us why you should be DA.

Mathews: I grew up in a community that was defined by high crime, gun violence, gang violence, murders and homicides. It was so bad that my parents only allowed me to hang out with my pastor and my youth group. Unfortunately, one day while we were all hanging out, laughing, a low-rider vehicle drove right past us. We didn’t pay much attention to it until it slammed on its brakes. The tire screeched, it backed up and it opened fire. It was one of the most terrifying experiences I’ve ever had. Not knowing if your last breath is the one you’re going to take next. I learned that day that I may not be safe no matter where I am in the city. No matter my parents’ efforts to keep me safe. A few years later, when I had an opportunity to go to a college preparatory school where I thought I’d be starting a bright new future in a safer community, I went on a walk and I was accosted and attacked by a truckload of guys who came to me and called me the N word, the B word and told me to go back to Africa. Again, I faced an unimaginable terror as I ran for my life, back to campus – going through the campus doors out of breath and in tears, telling the administrators what happened to me. Their response was, ‘You shouldn’t have been walking alone.’ I share those two experiences because I learned two things: Number one, I may not be safe no matter where I live. And number two, the criminal justice system may not be available to me because the police were never called, not even an incident report was filed. I’m running for Sacramento County DA because I believe everybody ought to feel safe no matter where they live, work and raise their families. And the criminal justice system ought to be available to everybody at every time, but it’s not. We normalized crime in certain communities and for certain victims and the criminal justice system has missed critical opportunities to keep our communities safe. That’s why we’re seeing such a spike in violent crime. We have an epidemic of homelessness, mental illness and substance abuse. I’m running for DA because I have broad experience in the courtroom, in the community in the Capitol and in the classroom of bringing solutions to problems. And I want to be your next DA because I want to handle the problem of crime by prioritizing violent and serious criminals. Not only prioritizing those offenders, but prosecuting them vigorously. I also have new ideas to bring targeted solutions to those who are experiencing homelessness, substance abuse and mental illness directed to the treatment and services that they need.

Ho: I was born in Vietnam in 1975. When South Vietnam fell to the Communists in the North, my family experienced injustice when the Communists came and arrested my uncle who worked for the South Vietnamese government. Without a judge, without a jury, without a prosecutor, he was sent to a reeducation camp in the jungle where he was tortured for seven years. In 1976, when I was a child, my parents, myself and my brother escaped Vietnam on a tiny fishing boat. My dad wore a uniform from a communist officer that he stole and a fake gun that he had painted. We ran out of gas, food and water and we were just stranded in the ocean near death until we were rescued. We came to this country with nothing but the clothes on our back. I learned how to speak English by watching Bugs Bunny cartoons and going to ESL class. Twenty-two years later, I graduated from the University of California, Davis and went to McGeorge Law School. I’ve been a prosecutor for two decades. I am an experienced prosecutor. I’m running for Sacramento DA because I want to make sure – and I have been making sure for the last 20 years – that you are safe. Not only do you feel safe, but that the community is safe. Safe for where you work. Safe where you walk your kids to school, or to the park. I have experience in the courtroom. I’ve tried nearly 100 jury trials – everything from homicide cases to gang shootings, to sex offenses. I’ve prosecuted the most complex victim sensitive cases that this County’s ever seen: the East Area Rapist and Golden State killer. In addition to my experience in the courtroom, I have experience in the executive room as an assistant chief in the DA’s office right now in Sacramento. I help manage the budget of 432 employees, 175 prosecutors. I have experience in the executive room, having supervised nearly 100 prosecutors. I have experience in the community working with community-based organizations to try to prevent crime and try to intervene and stop the school-to-prison pipeline. I’m running for district attorney because I want to make sure that you are safe. I want to target and make sure that we continue to prosecute serious and violent felonies like rape felony and gun offenses, which I have personally done. In addition to that, I want to make sure that we address the homelessness crisis because the homeless crisis has three elements to it: It has housing but it also has mental health and drug addiction. For the last several years, I’ve been working with the county and the city to try to deal with those very issues, bringing people together. As the next District Attorney, I will make sure that all communities are safe and secure and that all people are treated equally. I have experience in the courtroom, in the executive room, in the classroom and in the community.

The Sacramento Bee: The main job of the District Attorney is to prosecute crimes. But do you agree the District Attorney also has an obligation to help curb crime or prevent crimes from happening? If you don’t agree, why not? But if you do agree, what specific ideas would you implement to attempt to curb crime before it happens? And please, let’s not talk about programs that are already in place. The question is: What would you do that isn’t already being done to help curb or prevent crime?

Ho: I do agree. I think, first and foremost, the responsibility of the district attorney is always public safety. I’m the only candidate for DA that has prosecuted and tried a homicide case. sex crimes and domestic violence. We have to make sure that people are held accountable for the violent crimes that they commit. It’s absolutely essential. It begins with accountability, but it goes beyond that. We also need to work upstream with prevention and intervention. So we prevent crimes from happening later in time, down the stream. What are some of the things we can do and continue to do with that? For example, for the last several years, I’ve worked with Mervin Brookins who runs a community-based organization known as Brother 2 Brother. What that organization does is it works with particularly men of color and people who engage in criminal activity but who are trying to turn their life around with mentorship programs. I’ve also been working at the Wellness Foundation. In addition to that, some of the policies and ideas I have in regards to intervention and prevention is this: A third of all kids who are in the foster care system, that are in the dependency and delinquency system, what happens when they time out of the system is they become homeless. What we need to do is have an apprenticeship program in our juvenile system. I’m in the process of working with the Building Trades and the Plumbers and Pipefitters and what we’re trying to do is bring an apprenticeship program into the juvenile system. When the California Youth Authority was closed down and inmates who are juveniles were being transferred back to Sacramento County, one of the things that we need to do is have rehabilitative programs to try to better prevent. One example of what we can do is to try to deal with treatment, mental health and intervention.

Mathews: I absolutely agree that it’s the role of the DA not only to prosecute and find justice in criminal cases, but it’s also the role of the DA to prevent crime. I would also submit that there’s a third role that is to be a trusted leader among the diverse communities that you serve. When we say prevention and intervention, it shouldn’t just be a term that we’re throwing out there. The reason why you have prevention and intervention is because you want to address the root causes of crime. There’s two prongs you can look at: Your role in finding justice in criminal cases. You’re reacting to crime, you’re prosecuting it in the courtroom. What we have to focus on is prevention and intervention to prevent crime from happening in the first place. What we have not seen from the leadership in the DA’s office, the policies or the practices, is prevention and intervention. Working with one program or two programs in one neighborhood is not preventing crime. We know that because of the headlines we keep reading every single day. So every election season, it’s great to have all these promises. But we have to ask ourselves, ‘If that is something we’re committed to, why hasn’t it already been done? Even when you talk about helping at-risk youth – when you talk about helping youth who are in the foster care system or youth who are looking to be rehabilitated or working with individuals – you’re still reacting to crime. That is the single tool and focus of the Sacramento DA’s office. It has not been on prevention and intervention. If you want to stop a 30-year-old man from beating his wife, you talk to him when he’s 10. What are we doing in schools? What programs do we have and what’s the presence the DA has in the community to offer resources? Are we sitting at the table, whether they’re discussing employment or housing, to make sure we have opportunities that are addressing crime? I’m a law professor. And not only is that a title we have, but it means I do the research and I see the studies on the drivers of violence we’re talking about. These prevention and intervention programs, are they addressing the drivers of violence? Are they dealing with how an individual deals with shame or disrespect? Are they dealing with the needs of the individual? It doesn’t do you any good to have a program if you don’t have transportation to get a person there. It doesn’t matter if you have a prevention or intervention program if the people don’t trust you or know who you are. The opportunity that we have now is actually to have a presence in the community. My ideas of having a youth court are things I’ve already been doing, which is mentoring women who have been in prison and mentoring at-risk youth. My first mentee was actually sworn into the bar last February and my second mentee graduated from law school and will be studying for the bar fairly soon. Those are programs that work.

The Sacramento Bee: Thien Ho, you’re not the DA right now, but you’ve been at the DA’s office for a long time. What do you say to the criticism about the DA not having done enough in terms of youth crime? That the DA’s office has funneled its best prosecutors, like yourself into gangs and homicides, and that not enough attention has been paid to youth crimes? Has that been a mistake in the past? And would you make that a priority as DA?

Ho: In terms of answering that last question, I was the only individual that actually provided a specific example of something that I would actually do, which is an apprenticeship program. But in regards to what we do in the office in regards to community engagement and engagement with youth, I’ll give you some examples of things we’re doing. We have a Crime Lab Youth Shadow Day. We have a Criminal Justice Youth Shadow Day as well. We have a Youth Academy, that is a 10 week long program. We’re engaging with youths in the community, trying to introduce them to the criminal justice system in a positive manner. We’re going back upstream earlier to try to educate them, put them in contact with good role models – whether it’s probation, defense attorneys, the court or the DA’s office. We have the Gun Violence Information for Teens program where we’re talking about trying to intervene and prevent gun violence that we have in schools. We have the Luther Burbank Youth Academy as well. We have an app that we use to connect youth in the community to different services that are available. But one of the things that I’m proposing that we talked about here is really adding in that apprenticeship program for those that are in our juvenile system. In addition to that, I believe that we should have neighborhood courts that are centered on juveniles in terms of getting them out of the criminal justice system and having accountability, credibility and mental health and working with many different programs. Such as with Paris Dye’s Impact Sac. I’ve been working with her program for several years to reach out and intervene with kids. There are things that I have done and will continue to do and will expand upon.

Mathews: Those are all things that are reactionary when we’re talking about working with youth that are already in the system. It’s a check the box approach. So when we look at the conditions that lead to youth or adults engaging in criminal conduct, a lot of times it’s the root causes of unemployment, lack of education and trauma that are happening in their lives. So we’re not addressing that. Bringing students into the DA’s office to tell them about the different court processes is not creating a pathway. What I’m talking about doing is what I’ve already been doing. We’re building pathways out of poverty to have a more holistic approach to build a better life. When I’ve mentored women who are on parole, and I took the 3 a.m. calls, we help them achieve sobriety. We help them continue their education. We help them find stability and housing. So unless you’re looking holistically at the conditions that lead to an environment where somebody may commit crime, you’re not addressing the root causes and you’re not preventing it. You’re just reacting to it. The proof is in the pudding. Where are we right now? How many of the youth that have gone through the Youth Academy have actually not been involved in or were previously involved in the system? How can we actually intervene in their lives?

The Sacramento Bee: What, specifically, has current DA Anne Marie Schubert done wrong? What, specifically, would you do to reverse what she has done wrong?

Mathews: I would prioritize gun violence. That means we need to get guns out of the hands of those who should not have them – primarily abusers. And there are other jurisdictions in California where we know the honor system isn’t working, and they have a system in place. There are three things I would do. Number one, I want to make sure that we have a team of attorneys and work with law enforcement so when we have restraining orders that are issued and an individual is not supposed to have a gun, we will get that gun out of their hands and get it away from abusers. Second, we need to target ghost guns, we need to step up. This is an issue that has been plaguing our community for at least a decade, but it has not been a priority. I would work with the attorney general or our other state partners to make sure that we address the problem of those guns. Third, we need to do education about our red flag laws so people understand and are empowered – when they have a family member or somebody that they know – and they have a process that they can get the guns out of the hands of somebody who should not have them. What I would be doing differently is recognizing that we’ve had very little accountability for police misconduct. As DA, I believe that anybody who breaks the law should be held accountable, no matter the position you hold, how much money you make or the uniform you wear. I want to be clear: This is the most pro-police action I can take, because it does not undermine constitutional policing officers who are putting on their uniform every single day and going out there and protecting and serving. We’re only talking about those who commit misconduct and we have not seen the level of accountability. I go to the Joseph Mann case. We had videotape. The line was crossed with the action of that officer, but the Sacramento DA’s office did not. What I would do is prioritize violence against women. The report that the death review team showed is over the last two years, with all the domestic violence referrals that had been referred to that office, less than half were actually filed. These are women who actually came forward and said, ‘I’m in trouble and I need help,’ but they were not helped. What I would do differently is prioritize violence against women, and I would not use the tool of incarcerating everybody. Certainly violent and serious offenders need to be locked up. But not everybody – those experiencing homelessness, mental illness and substance abuse who are low-level offenders. We need to get them into treatment and services.

Ho: I want to talk about what I want to do in terms of the future of the DA’s office. One of the things I would want to do – that I intend on doing – is creating and reestablishing a community advisory council made up of people from diverse communities and from many different parts of the county. That council would have a direct contact in meeting with the district attorney and myself so that we can hear from and learn from the community and have that relationship. I think that’s important to establish. So I would like to establish a diverse community council – a kitchen cabinet, as you would say in regards to the District Attorney’s office in the community. In regards to gun violence, we’ve definitely seen an uptick across the country. I know my opponent mentioned a few things in terms of restraining orders and prioritizing gun violence. But I want to inform our public – for those of you who may not know this in regards to getting guns away from those with a restraining order. In my office, when there’s a domestic violence case, our attorneys that deal with domestic violence and those types of cases go through a risk assessment, a thorough risk assessment and we partner with law enforcement to get those guns out of their hands. Some people may not realize this, but there’s a unit within law enforcement, within the sheriff’s department, and their job is when they take those restraining orders, they work with us to go out and contact those individuals in their homes, their apartments, their residence, in their workplace, to serve them with that restraining order and to get the gun. One of the things I want to talk about is we need to address this stealing of guns. The vast majority of gun violence that happens in our community comes from guns that are stolen, not guns that are purchased legally. We’re talking about guns that are stolen and stealing those guns. But what we need to do is make sure that offense is a felony, that there is accountability on that end, because unless it’s $950 in a misdemeanor, we will continue to make sure there are gun laws and to enforce gun laws. But I want to engage with the community and build bridges with all communities.

The Sacramento Bee: This question is from JP in Elk Grove: “When Chesa Boudin ran for San Francisco district attorney in 2019, he said crime was caused by poverty, wealth inequality, and inadequate government spending on social programs. He called prostitution, open drug use, and drug dealing “victimless crimes” and promised not to prosecute them. With crime and homelessness proliferating in our region, would you manage these issues as Boudin has? Do you agree with his approach? Or if you disagree, how will you manage these issues differently in Sacramento?

Ho: I would not handle it the way that San Francisco’s handling it. I went up to San Francisco recently, about a month ago, and I visited with a gentleman whose name was Tom. Tom was a worker for the city of San Francisco. He ended up having surgery and got addicted to drugs and next thing he knows he’s homeless on the street, he lost both his kids, his wife and his home. By the time I met him, when he was recovering, he showed me the Tenderloin District on a tour. What we need here when we’re talking about homelessness – and I do not want to criminalize in any way homelessness – is we need to address the homelessness crisis in three different ways. There’s obviously a housing component, but the other two components we need to address are mental health and drug addiction. That plays a huge role. Whether homelessness causes it or it causes homelessness, drug addiction and mental health are still there nonetheless and we need to deal with it. How do we deal with it? There’s a couple of things we have to do when we’re dealing with homelessness and drug addiction and mental health. One of the things the district attorney is involved in is that we get people who are released from the jail, and they have to be released within a certain number of hours. They’re released at 10 o’clock at night or 11 o’clock at night and they don’t have services and they’re homeless and they have no contact and they’re just there. I worked to create a working group with the Board of Supervisors, the county executive, the sheriff’s department and the public defender’s office in behavioral mental health. What we’re doing is embedding a person inside the jail with behavioral health to do an assessment there. I’ve also contacted the Exodus Project, a community-based organization that deals with wraparound services, and one of the ideas we’re working on right now is to create a 24-hour reception area right by the jail so that if somebody is released, they get transported, they get over there, they get temporary housing. In addition, they get wraparound services at that point in time because there’s a small window to deal with the mental health and drug addiction and create those programs. The DA’s office also has a program called the CORE Program where, when an individual has committed crimes – it could be vandalism, trespassing, assault and battery – what happens is, in lieu of doing the jail time, they’re offered an opportunity to do mental health and drug addiction, and if they do, so they get transferred. We had a gentleman just recently get into that program, and if they complete the program, they don’t do any jail time. Instead, they are put on probation. And what we have to do is work with our communities to get transitional housing. We have to deal with mental health and drug addiction. We have to deal with that in a cohesive way.

Mathews: I don’t think San Francisco should be the standard by which we address the crime problems that we have in Sacramento. To answer the question, I have not focused on how he is doing his job. And I can’t agree. I didn’t go to San Francisco to find a homeless person and talk to them. I’ve been walking the streets of Sacramento. I had an opportunity to participate in the point of time count where I got to talk to the people that are experiencing homelessness right here in our community. What I learned is that although there is a lot of mental health and substance abuse, a lot of people are experiencing homelessness – including the elderly, women who are escaping an abusive environment, disabled veterans, foster youth, transgender youth, and those who are reentering society. Although a poll may tell you there are three main points to deal with, that’s not going to work. Because those who are experiencing homelessness are not a monolith. We have to have targeted solutions that address the conditions that each of them face. What I will say, to answer your question with regards to low-level offenders and sex workers, is that I think we have to first address the root causes of crime so that we’re not just waiting for individuals who are going to be released from jail before we can provide services for them. We can be proactive. Those experiencing homelessness are more likely to be victims of crime than perpetrators of crime. And what we know is that crime happens among those who are experiencing homelessness before it happens in the broader community. Right now, they don’t have anyone who is protecting them and looking out for them. What I would do differently is make sure we have a relationship so that we are building trust in those communities and not waiting until they commit crimes. And if they do commit crimes, certainly we can direct them and divert them into treatment and services. But I think we have to be just as diligent in making sure we’re addressing the underlying needs that caused them to deal with homelessness, caused them to have mental health issues or substance abuse problems, to make sure we’re having targeted solutions, not only to address the problem, but to prevent crime and keep our community safe.

The Sacramento Bee: Alana Mathews, there is no denying the success you’ve attained over your career, but some critics argue that you don’t have enough experience as a prosecutor to be a DA. When you served as a deputy district attorney, how often were you in a courtroom and what cases did you handle?

Mathews: I was a deputy DA, I worked in that office starting off as an intern for two years and another eight years as a line prosecutor. I started off prosecuting misdemeanor, jury trials, I did a rotation through our juvenile hall, domestic violence, our preliminary hearing unit, even to our felony trial team, and in each rotation I was given the most serious and complex cases, including robbery and home invasion and attempted murder. The last trial assignment I had was in a special unit dealing with our prison crime, so crimes that happened in prisons. I’ve had approximately 50 jury and court trials that I have tried to verdict or adjudication, but what I will say is that the problem that we have in the DA’s office is not in the courtroom experience. The DA doesn’t actually go into court and try cases. It’s actually been in that prong of prevention and intervention, and that’s why my experience as an executive leader being appointed by the governor – not in the title I had but actually driving organizational change, building a statewide coalition. So I won’t talk about creating an advisory board. I’ve actually created an advisory board. It’s not something I want to do, I’ve already done it and I’ve done it for multiple agencies and built consensus among stakeholder groups. I’ve also had experience in the Capitol with the chief consultant of the Climate Change Committee. When we’re talking about expanding mental health programs with substance abuse, where’s the money going to come from? How are we going to make this happen? My experience in the legislature brings key, in-depth experience with working with the governor’s office, working with the legislators – not because I’m going and testifying at a hearing, I’ve actually created the hearings that require somebody to look ahead. What are the issues? What are the trends? Because we don’t want to be reacting to policy issues that arise, we want to be proactive against it. That’s the experience that I had in the legislature. Working with our budget process by simply commenting or giving feedback on a bill that you’ve reviewed, that doesn’t qualify as experience of understanding how we work with legislators to make policy and laws that are actually going to keep our community safe. Finally, my key experience is my experience in the community, not when I’ve been working with one or two different people and programs, but I’ve actually provided results. I’ve talked about mentoring women on parole and at-risk youth and building pathways. What’s key about that is I have experience transforming lives, not just protecting them. That’s what we’re going to need to make our region safe again. I know this because I grew up in a high crime community. And the last thing I’ll say is I have experienced in the court, in the classroom, not just by teaching a class but teaching a class that brought the law school in the community. Teaching about alternatives to 911, housing issues and those at risk of becoming homeless.

The Sacramento Bee: Thien Ho, you have a cold-blooded reputation among some defense attorneys. Your aggressive posture as a prosecutor has clearly served you well. You have been very successful. But is that the kind of DA you’re going to be? Will you be the DA who goes for the throat?

Ho: In terms of the relationships with the other partners in the criminal justice system, I have a great relationship with them. When you look at examples, there’s a union that represents both the public defender’s office and the district attorney’s office. I received the overwhelming support of that organization, including many public defenders. I have people that have endorsed me that are defense attorneys that are prominent in the community including Johnny Griffin, one of the most prominent African American attorneys and defense attorneys in town, both on the federal and state level. In regards to working with judges, I have been endorsed by nearly a dozen retired judges both in the Superior Court and on the third district court of appeals. I think that’s reflective of the collaborative relationship that I have with the different partners in the criminal justice system. And that’s also reflective of the fact that I created a working group, essentially involving the public defender’s office, the interim public defender. When we’re sitting there at a table talking about what we can do for people that are being released from the county jail in the middle of the night, that right there is reflective of a collaborative experience and experience. I’ve been in the middle of the park talking to somebody who’s homeless and have experience in terms of talking to community members and working people. It’s not just whether it’s the Board of Supervisors, whether it’s community-based organization, whether it’s a business or community member or defense attorney. I have broad base support from both sides of the line and continue to work with public defenders, defense attorneys, judges, people in probation. I think that’s reflective of the fact that the probation department has endorsed me. And it’s reflective of the work that community members such as Nicole Clavo and Mervin Brookins and others who work in the community have endorsed me, because I work well with many different people.

The Sacramento Bee: Los Angeles DA George Gascón promised that his office would no longer seek the death penalty, life sentences without the possibility of parole and that his office would not try any juveniles as adults. These promises have been controversial. Equally controversial have been the diversion policies of San Francisco DA Chesa Boudin, who has – according to the San Francisco Chronicle – sent a greater percentage of robbery, assault and drug cases into diversion programs than previous DA’s. For each of you: Do you agree with these specific policies of Gascón and Boudin and would you implement them in Sacramento?

Ho: I believe that blanket policies, across the board – when you say you won’t do X, Y and Z – I think they’re bad policy in regards to juveniles. I want to give an example of prosecuting juveniles as an adult. I have prosecuted juveniles who are 17 years old and committed a homicide, killing somebody who was sitting in a wheelchair suffering from MS. I prosecuted that individual as an adult. For most violent crimes such as rape and murder, there’s a judge and there’s a psychiatrist and a process that is reviewed and approved by the court before that is done. We don’t get to do that on our own. So I’ve done that, and in the right circumstances and the right situations, I believe that it’s appropriate to do with court supervision in regards to life without the possibility of parole and the death penalty. I’ve prosecuted a person, Joseph DeAngelo, who killed 13 people, raped upwards of 50 people and committed 120 different burglaries. And I’ve prosecuted people who were sentenced who raped little children, seven- and eight-year-old little kids and I’ve prosecuted and tried those cases in the courtroom, not as a court trial, but in front of a judge and a jury and obtained convictions on those. I believe that public safety in those violent crimes is paramount and we must have accountability. When we have changes in those policies, we need to be able to consult with victims, talk with victims and make sure that their voices are heard. These are the survivors of crimes. These are the people who’ve had the fabric of their lives torn apart. We need to talk to victims. That’s why I co-founded the Voices for Victims Coalition to make sure they had a voice. That’s why I’m endorsed by Crime Victims United. I’m all for alternative programs, but we have to make sure there’s accountability and public safety involved in the DA’s office. For example, we have opportunity programs in regards to veteran treatment. When you have a veteran who’s suffering because of the service that they gave to our country because of the mental health or psychiatric conditions that causes them directly to commit a particular crime, at veterans court, mentorship and statistics-wise, we have an 83% success rate. Those cases are dismissed after they go through the program – have the mentorship and get the treatment. That’s something we’re doing in this office. When it comes to public safety, we always need to make sure that the reform or the changes are reasonable and not reckless and that we always make sure the voices of victims are heard.

Mathews: Let me start with the juvenile question. I’ve always looked at this from the point of rehabilitation. I think it’s important to look at this from the point of accountability. I don’t think there are blanket policies that are going to serve any DA well. In certain circumstances, where it’s appropriate, I think juveniles can be tried as an adult. But I think those are very rare, in particular circumstances that the DA needs to look at and not have a blanket policy. I’ve come to that conclusion after speaking and listening to a victim and a mom who lost her son and the person who perpetrated that crime was tried as a juvenile and they’re looking to be released fairly soon. There has not been any accountability because that person is still bragging about that in the conversations I’ve had with her. In a situation where a juvenile will be released and they’re going to commit further harm into the community, we have to look at what’s appropriate in each case for the death penalty. I do not support seeking that at this time. I think our system is not only effective but there’s racial disparities. But even in the most egregious crime – as my opponent just mentioned the Golden State killer, if anybody was deserving of that form of punishment, I believe it was that individual, yet he was not – until we have a system where it can be applied fairly, it hasn’t been shown to be effective. It costs a lot of money and it’s not a deterrent to crime. With regards to diversion. What I’m hearing from defense attorneys is that diversion programs are not very successful here in Sacramento County. We have a lot of them and we have a statistic of 83%. But how many individuals does it actually represent? How many went through the court? What number is represented? Because when I walked among those who were homeless, a lot of them were veterans and they didn’t have the opportunity to go through that program. What I hear, time and time again, whether they’re public defenders or defense attorneys, is that these diversion programs are a slow plea – that people are not eligible to become a part of the diversion programs. And these are low-level offenses. And then when they get into the diversion program, it’s not set up for them to be different, successful. We’re not actually successful in intervening in crime. I think diversion should be reserved for low-level offenders, that serious and violent offenders should be vigorously prosecuted and held accountable.

The Sacramento Bee: Currently, the DA’s office enjoys immunity from civil liability and many decisions are made behind closed doors. As the new district attorney, what will you do to create more transparency and accountability about the decisions made by the DA’s office?

Mathews: I intend to have a data dashboard. That opens up the transparency of the DA’s office so that every person that we’re charging and what we’re charging them with – that has been done in other jurisdictions, so I would adopt that model as well to have greater transparency. Additionally, I want to be more present in the community. I find it ironic that we have a community prosecution unit, but there’s still ideas being floated around creating an advisory board to have more community engagement where you think we have the structure in place to already be doing that. There’s a reason why there hasn’t been transparency in the DA’s office and things have been done behind closed doors. I think we ought to be more present in the community, not building fences but building bridges. We don’t have to wait to have an advisory board. When we just have a select few people whose names we can put out there to say we’re working with them. I want to be more present in the community, having town halls and having regular meetings. Going out into the community and understanding how they experience safety. Not only is that important to introduce who the DA is and what the DA does, it builds trust in a community. Why is that important? Because when really bad people do really bad things we need the community to come forward. Those are your witnesses. Those are the people we need to rely on to collaborate and have a partnership to keep all of us safe. It’s important to have that transparency so that we build that trust so that when we need them, it’s already there. You don’t want the worst day of somebody’s life to be the first time they’re learning about who the DA’s office is and what the DA’s office does. We want to make sure that we are working with the community. That’s why I want to start a crime strategies unit where we actually look and target crime and victimization trends in each community. So that we plot that out. Not only do we understand that, but we have a multidisciplinary team so we’re not only working with law enforcement and the DA’s.

Ho: I believe in transparency. And part of that transparency, in terms of openness, is relationships in the community. For the last 20 years, as a prosecutor, I’ve had that relationship – being in the community, working with the community. I think that it’s really important to establish that relationship so the community understands what it is we’re doing, why we do what we do. We have younger attorneys and attorneys who are embedded and work with a community-based organization and community groups. Our officers are in the community. We walk in the community, work in the community, talk with the community. I’ve been out there talking with the community about all the issues they face, whether it’s gun violence, whether it’s the homelessness crisis, whether it’s drugs or mental health. So those are the things we need to do and continue to do to really create that transparency, that relationship, so that we can inform the public about what we do. Programs such as our Youth Academy and our Citizens Academy which we’ve done now for over a decade where we’re working and engaging with different people in the community.

The Sacramento Bee: In regards to the K Street shooting that occurred in our community a couple of weeks ago, obviously there’s a lot of threads that have come off of it as the investigation and reporting has unfolded. I’d like to hear from each of you – and I know, Thien, you’re limited on what you can say on this – about how you would respond to this situation and how you would bring the community together, recognizing the need for Sacramento to heal after this.

Ho: There’s a rule of professional conduct that prevents prosecutors from talking about a pending case or pending investigation because of certain processing rights. Frankly, I think that rule should apply to candidates who are running for district attorney as well. Because that is the position that’s involved. I want to address, in general, if I can, in regards to gun violence and shootings and what have you. We’ve seen an uptick in gun violence. And it’s tragic anytime there’s a loss of life. One of the great things that we have in our community is, as the District Attorney’s Office, we need to make sure that we hold those who are responsible for committing violent crimes to the fullest extent of the law. We need to continue to do that. And we will do that because the victims of crimes, especially violent crimes, deserve to have justice. They deserve to have justice in the community. They deserve to feel safe. Let’s start there with accountability, the other things we need to work on and we are working on our intervention and prevention, working with community-based organizations. One of the things we need to address is being addressed as organizations. I mentioned Nicole Clavo a moment ago, She’s the manager of the City of Sacramento Violent Crime Prevention. I first met Nicole several years ago when her son JJ was a high school football player for Grant Union High School. And he was shot and killed in a gang drive by shooting. I was assigned to prosecute that case. I got to meet with her and sit with her and hold her hand in the most dark, worst part of her life. And since then, she’s turned tragedy into triumph. What she continues to do in different situations and cases as well, is when there are events that happen, when there are tragedies that happen, she and her team and organizations are out there in the community, making sure that there isn’t an escalation of violence. There’s the accountability, the prosecution of those who commit crimes, making sure they’re held accountable. At the same time, making sure that there’s community engagement and working with the community.

Mathews: We need to look back a little bit further when we talk about accountability. We are reacting to a situation. We know that oftentimes people who have guns who shouldn’t have them have a history of domestic violence. It’s not an accountability problem. What we’re starting to see is that it’s not believing women, particularly women of color, when they warn about dangerous men. What we need to do is back up and see that those who are engaged in sex trafficking and domestic abuse, when we have we have them in front of us we’re going to hold them accountable. We’re actually holding them accountable for the serious violence that they have committed. This is not something I’ve read about, this is something I personally experienced. We have normalized crime against certain types of victims and certain types of communities. And while this was new on April 3 to Downtown Sacramento, it has not been new. My opponent has just talked about his leadership focused on certain areas like Del Paso Heights, but what about those who lived in Meadowview? What about those who live in Oak Park? Not only are there African Americans my opponent keeps talking about, but what about those in the Latino community? Those in the Asian American Pacifici Islander community? They have people who are working just as hard in the community. What we need to do to bring us all together is recognize there’s more than three programs and two people who are working on this. We need to work with everybody on prevention. Also, we need to believe women when they say, ‘I’m fearful for my life.’ If we’re going to give them a restraining order to protect them, we need to make sure we’re protecting their children as well. What I would do differently is make sure that I’m in the community when violent crimes happen. We’re not just talking about accountability. We’re making sure we’re doing it in the courtroom.

The Sacramento Bee: We want to give you both time to offer closing statements.

Mathews: What I would say to the voters of Sacramento County is that crime has been normalized in certain types of communities against certain types of victims. We have not prioritized serious and violent offenders across the board. That’s what we need to do. I have been talking to those who are most impacted by crime and what I find it’s trust. There has not been a presence of the DA’s office. And it’s really sad when an individual or an organization thinks they’re actually doing it, but they’re not. We’re not seeing the results of community engagement. We’re not seeing the results of prioritizing gun violence. It is rampant and it is random across our region. Nobody feels safe. What we need is somebody who has the experience, not just a title, not just a text, a checkbox in the courtroom, somebody who’s actually working with regional leaders to bring targeted solutions to address the underlying causes of crime. But also making sure that when we have violent and serious offenders, we are holding them accountable. We believe women and we are offering opportunities to low-level offenders so that we can prioritize the resources that law enforcement in the DA’s office give to more serious and violent offenders by making sure low-level offenders get diverted to treatment and services that they need.

Ho: For the last 20 years as a prosecutor, every time I’ve stood up in a courtroom, I announced myself as ‘Thien Ho, on behalf of the community, on behalf of the people, for the people.’ The district attorney is the attorney for the people, of the people, from the people elected by the people. It’s all people in all communities. You see the sign behind me that says ‘experienced prosecutor.’ Tonight, as you listened to both of us, I want you to pay attention. I provided very specific examples of what I would like to do and what I have been doing and addressing gun violence, homicides, gang violence, juvenile violence and, on top of that, our homelessness crisis. I have worked with not only local leaders but community members and organizations to deal with the homelessness crisis. What’s going on in terms of releases at the jails? What’s going on in terms of different locations and mental health and drug addiction? I have the experience. Who do you want to hire to be your lawyer? You want somebody who has that experience, somebody who’s done it for 20 years. If you’re flying into the Sacramento airport, you want a prosecutor who has successfully landed that plane every single time for the last 20 years. Somebody with the experience in the courtroom, in the executive room, in the classroom, in the community. I am that person.

This story was originally published June 1, 2022 at 5:00 AM.